tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post6457136910696982167..comments2023-06-24T10:52:34.846-04:00Comments on EducateHilliard.com: How Should our Public School System be Organized?Paulhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05960574627644930183noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-76350953318902294172012-07-20T15:07:36.143-04:002012-07-20T15:07:36.143-04:00Interesting perspective on this by the folks over ...Interesting <a href="http://www.edexcellence.net/commentary/education-gadfly-daily/flypaper/2012/the-case-for-public-school-choice-in-the-suburbs.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20flypaper%20%28The%20Education%20Gadfly%20Daily%3A%20Ideas%20that%20stick%20from%20the%20Fordham%20Institute%29" rel="nofollow">perspective</a> on this by the folks over at the Fordham Institute.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05960574627644930183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-31981872813706605252012-07-18T16:06:28.620-04:002012-07-18T16:06:28.620-04:00Thanks for the clarification. In time, the real es...Thanks for the clarification. In time, the real estate market would figure out how to price a parcel without the school factor. Of course, the issue with change is usually less about the viability of the proposed future state, but rather about the pain of the transition - in particular who is made a winner, and who a loser.<br /><br />I think Tiebout also fails to consider the conflict which sometimes exists between the legacy members of a community, and the more recent arrivals.<br /><br />I saw a dramatic example of that during the last levy campaign, when I was at a PTO meeting at one of the elementary schools, representing the school board. One of the speakers on behalf of the levy was a parent who has a high-paying professional career. One of her comments was that when she heard that HCSD was not the highest per-pupil spender in central Ohio, she wondered what her kids were missing out on that kids in other districts got to have.<br /><br />That perspective is based on the assumption that per-student spending is related only to the breadth of programming and services offered. That's one component, but it also depends on the average comp/benefits of the teachers, staff and administrators, and with a large fraction of our team at the top half of the salary grid, our average comp is also pretty high for the region (which is why we offered an early retirement incentive program).<br /><br />But having walked many neighborhoods in our community, I know that many of the senior citizens in the older neighborhoods are quite dismayed at how 'fancy' our district has become.<br /><br />Certainly they behaved according to Tiebout's theory when they picked Hilliard as a place to live 40-50 years ago. They haven't changed, they've just become a minority in a community populated by folks who want more, and have a tolerance for paying higher taxes to make it happen.<br /><br />I'm somewhere in the middle - a 30 year resident whose kids graduated in the last decade. I was okay with the tax rates we paid when we built a home here 30 years ago. And I am pleased at the educational experience my kids had as students here.<br /><br />But now as a retired person whose kids are long gone, the rising taxes are getting pretty uncomfortable. I've migrated to that side of the fence.<br /><br />This is why I think we may need to be open to talking about an earned income tax as a way to raise revenue down the road. It relieves those living on retirement income (like me!) from the burden of rising property taxes.<br /><br />But it also leaves local businesses out of new levies. Maybe that's okay, because it might help attract new businesses to locate here, and they would still contribute to school funding via property tax levies already in force (net of whatever TIFs they might be granted by the relevant city government).Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05960574627644930183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-68119998147429420342012-07-18T14:52:07.619-04:002012-07-18T14:52:07.619-04:00What I'm saying is that the values of property...What I'm saying is that the values of property in HCSD are dependent upon many variables. One, the quality of the schools, would change dramatically if the dollars followed the student. Because of this, property owners (and taxpayers) in districts like HCSD, would fight any proposal like yours.<br /><br />Tiebout's assumption about moving is strange, but I think it makes sense generally in the way that individuals will self-sort into like communities. That means that HCSD residents' expectations are great schools, city services, libraries, etc and are willing to pay a premium for it.RKShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10743774344379760669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-30858781976814953032012-07-17T13:39:01.099-04:002012-07-17T13:39:01.099-04:00Thanks for the comment - I hadn't heard of the...Thanks for the comment - I hadn't heard of the Tiebout Model before. It strikes me as a little simplistic though, like when you start studying physics and the teacher tells you to ignore friction.<br /><br />By that I mean Tiebout assumes that households can move between taxing districts at no cost. We know this isn't true, and it's even more challenging when folks are dealing with a significant loss of market value (even though it probably means a dwelling in a more desirable district costs less now than before as well).<br /><br />One wonders if this creates a pent-up demand of folks who want to move out, but are waiting for a more opportune time. Maybe this is what you're saying - that while waiting, even those who might be planning to move out will support whatever actions they feel are necessary (e.g. passage of a new levy) to preserve property values.<br /><br />I tend to agree with that...Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05960574627644930183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-61999836692648672862012-07-17T13:18:36.403-04:002012-07-17T13:18:36.403-04:00I believe that the disruption to property values w...I believe that the disruption to property values would be enough to prevent this from ever happening. It's the revenge of the Tiebout model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiebout_model).RKShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10743774344379760669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-58599057420197135892012-07-15T22:18:43.525-04:002012-07-15T22:18:43.525-04:00I absolutely agree that college costs are the next...I absolutely agree that college costs are the next bubble we have to deal with, and it's been created by the same mechanism as the housing bubble - access to cheap credit.<br /><br />College costs are going to keep rising until students and parents say "Enough!"<br /><br />Easy to say after the fact of course. We spent a boatload of money paying for our kids' undergrad/graduate degrees, and we'd do it again in a heartbeat.<br /><br />That's the trouble with so much of this public policy stuff - what looks stupid in the abstract is often a different matter when applied to one's own situation....Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05960574627644930183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-77106205834277607812012-07-15T19:35:22.837-04:002012-07-15T19:35:22.837-04:00It's hard for me to see the college system as ...It's hard for me to see the college system as worthy of emulation given skyrocketing costs -- some in the mainstream media are calling college the "new bubble" -- but at least it's much more market-driven than K-12.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17118362963139092279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-68464954706572846002012-07-15T09:02:40.330-04:002012-07-15T09:02:40.330-04:00I think a free market for K-12 education, with app...I think a free market for K-12 education, with appropriate tax-funded subsidy to ensure than every kid has access to a well-delivered basic education, will lead to both massive systems spanning many campuses and little boutique single-building schools which focus on the needs of a particular set of students. <br /><br />Again this is just like what we see at the college level, with both Ohio State at 60,000 students and Heidelberg at 1,500 having a place.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05960574627644930183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-11970340612190758832012-07-13T21:33:31.928-04:002012-07-13T21:33:31.928-04:00Interesting, provocative post. Thought you were go...Interesting, provocative post. Thought you were going to be in favor of massive districts, which would be folly (the administrative savings would be tiny in the big scheme of things). I totally agree that we need to get competition into school districts with a voucher program.TSOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-90654537210200102752012-07-13T19:09:52.800-04:002012-07-13T19:09:52.800-04:00I don't disagree.
And so this notion of disa...I don't disagree. <br /><br />And so this notion of disassociating the choice of school from the choice of address allows parents to seek the supplier of education services who offers what they are looking for in terms of curriculum, faculty, facilities, location, and cost.<br /><br />It's exactly the choice parents and student make when they're picking a college. Why can't it apply to K-12 levels as well?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05960574627644930183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4289345346387194350.post-3032352058143983402012-07-13T17:28:28.037-04:002012-07-13T17:28:28.037-04:00An interesting take from my favorite 1/32 American...An interesting take from my favorite 1/32 American Indian Harvard Law Professor... <br /><br />I wonder if you swapped all students from two very different districts, say an affluent suburban district and an urban city district, and then compared how each group of "transplanted" students performed after a period of time. My gut says that students would perform relatively the same as they did in their previous district regardless of either the extra or limited programs offered by each district. <br /><br />In my opinion, the outcome of a child's education in general is most influenced by the parent's involvement and not as much by the district's spending or the house/area that you live in. <br /><br />I would bet on a kid from a poor family who values education vs. a kid from a "rich" family who do not anyday. The road can obviously be alot tougher in urban districts but it can be done - you just first have to have the desire.Steve Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15673706589719986406noreply@blogger.com